Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

[timpickens]

Jesus Lizard by a long shot. I've never really been able to see what other people saw (heard) with Fugazi. They're certainly a great band and I've liked everything I've heard from them but none of it has really blown me away. Sometimes the songs with Guy Picciotto on vocals get on my nerves at times.

TJL, on the other hand, I can listen to every day. I have had Head/Pure, Goat, Down, Liar, and Bang in constant rotation ever since I've had them.

[a. james]

Fucking Birthday Pony?!

Never understood the dislike for that song. It's pretty funny, and I like the quiet bit towards the end.

It's not a bad song at all

It's the worst song I've ever heard. Try listening to the first 15 or so minutes of In On The Kill Taker and tell me it's not the best Fugazi album. What's that? Yes, you're right. Birthday Pony does suck. Thunderdome: Birthday Pony Vs. Facet Squared, or Smallpox Champion, or Public Witness Program. Stop it.

it's all in the intros. red medicine wins on intro.

[NerblyBear]

Well, regardless of who ultimately wins this poll, I think the amazing closeness of the vote tally shows how great both of these bands were.

Apparently they played shows together on more than one occasion. I can't imagine what a mindblow that must have been.

[d865]

Like them both equally.

[Marsupialized]

Like them both equally.

damn, what happened? you changed it
Ah, I see...wrong thread
Whew, I was gonna accuse you of having shit for brains

[d865]

marsup wrote:

This boy must have dog droppings in his head, this one right here.

You like In Utero better than anything either Fugazi or The Jesus Lizard ever did?

Dog droppings, I tell ya...all up in his head

_________________
.




That was meant for the mudhoney vs. nirvana thread.. Never saw JL live but fugazi has always been amazing.

[d865]

marsup wrote:

damn, what happened? you changed it
Ah, I see...wrong thread
Whew, I was gonna accuse you of having shit for brains

haha.. Nirvana definitely ranks a distant third.

[JDanger]

Both these bands have their own permanent place in my own personal history as critical stepping stones to where I am now as a noise fanatic, and I do blame both bands, also personally, for not going further than they did. Such a difficult match-up, props to the thread-starter, but ultimately it is FUGAZI that comes out on top. Why? Because:

Jesus Lizard sold out in the end. Stop covering for them. They did. I love Duane Denison. I love his guitar, but God bless him, he sold his soul. David Yow, don't get me started. Ian and Guy are dorks, maybe, but they remained true to the fight, and you know it, you can't argue with it. Stop your manuvering. Maybe you dislike the mature, and thoughtful The Argument but it's ten times smarter and more respectable than the unspeakable horror that came at he end of TJL.

Fugazi. By a hair.

[Ranxerox]

he sold his soul

Oh, bullshit.

[holmes]

fugazi border on annoying and vagualy fascist ironically.

For reals. WTF?

I voted for fugazi, but I get where he's coming from (I think). One thing I noticed watching the Instrument dvd was that, for a band founded on a punk rock ethos, they sure do spend a lot of time telling people what they can and cannot do...

you are way off base.

They ask people not to be violent and destructive at their shows because guess who is responsible if someone destroys a bunch oif shit at the venue? Or breaks their neck slam dancing? Who's the kids parents gonna sue?
They would be the target, they had no label or teams of lawyers or what have you to deal with such things. they did it all on their own, every step of teh way.
One real bad incident could have destroyed everything they had built and worked for.
So yeah, I'd ask people not to destroy shit and please don't crowd surf as well if I'm in that position. One show you can't jump on people's heads at, big deal, grow up.

I don't think it's the fear of being sued, I think it's just that they didn't want these unfortunate things to happen while they're playing. no? I mean, they seem like the most caring people ever.

i hate fucking slam dancing man. that had nothing to do with it. why on earth would that be the first thing that popped into your head after reading my post? im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have done at all.

im with bradley on this one.

Where the fuck did you get that from Fugazi? I'm not doing a name drop but I've been to a bar with Fugazi. They're regular guys, some of whom don't drink. I never get that I can't drink from their music or that I am somehow not allowed to do things. Apart from maybe beating up a gay person in a park but I would say that's something of a given that that's 'bad'.
And if someone wants to police their own show in order to make sure everyone in there has the best time they possibly can without people acting like they're on MTV then more power to them.

various live show quotes and various interviews and various books such as 'are band could be your life' or whatever its called, is where the fuck i got that from. but i guess i havent been to the pub with them so who knows.

[sphincter]

They want to create a friendly environment for kids at shows, where people show each other respect and don't knock each other down because kids jumped around in the 80s.

A guy kept crowd surfing during one show and Ian Mackaye didn't try and throw the kid out or go nuts, he just made fun of him for being a complete dick, fair enough I say.

[Minotaur029]

The Jesus Lizard.
There was some magic in their shows wich can't be faked or contrived.
The Fugazi comes off kind of humorless and young minded. I don't get too energized by what people say in their songs. I think a lot of their music is amazing though.

Fugazi is a very cool band...but their tight, somewhat typical sound just can't compare to The Jesus Lizard's thick, dark, yet sorta funny (as in humorous) sound. "Typical" might not be a fair way to describe Fugazi, but the Jesus Lizard seems really original to me...even though the "Chicago"/"Albini" sound has been around for a long time now.

I never was able to see a live show of either group, though. Despite this, I can't imagine that Fugazi could possibly have been more intense than the Jesus Lizard on stage (at least during TJL's prime years).

Jesus Lizard by a long way.

[Marsupialized]

A guy kept crowd surfing during one show and Ian Mackaye didn't try and throw the kid out or go nuts, he just made fun of him for being a complete dick, fair enough I say.

also Guy jumps on anyone who gets on stage and starts furiously making out with them, pretty good tactic...I wouldn't do it if I knew that was coming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zibWVwI26o

[Piasek]

here's the best the jesus lizard clip where duane beats up crowd member. it's at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw9u5XxLx6w

[Marsupialized]

here's the best the jesus lizard clip where duane beats up crowd member. it's at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw9u5XxLx6w

I already posted this earlier in the thread

[Piasek]

here's the best the jesus lizard clip where duane beats up crowd member. it's at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw9u5XxLx6w

I already posted this earlier in the thread

sorry

[only here]

im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have done at all.

im with bradley on this one.

Where the fuck did you get that from Fugazi? I'm not doing a name drop but I've been to a bar with Fugazi. They're regular guys, some of whom don't drink. I never get that I can't drink from their music or that I am somehow not allowed to do things. Apart from maybe beating up a gay person in a park but I would say that's something of a given that that's 'bad'.
And if someone wants to police their own show in order to make sure everyone in there has the best time they possibly can without people acting like they're on MTV then more power to them.

various live show quotes and various interviews and various books such as 'are band could be your life' or whatever its called, is where the fuck i got that from. but i guess i havent been to the pub with them so who knows.

i have read all those interviews too and i never felt alienated. sounds like your ego is sore. i want to live in a society where artists feel free to speak the truth without regard to old standards (i.e. "don't bully me, i'm punk rock."). \
ian mackaye grew up and moved on from the minor threat days. it's all right there in the music. you don't have to assume anything.

Go where you think you wanna go
Do everything you were sent here for
Fire at will if you hear that call
Touch your hand to the wall at night

sounds like an advocate for personal freedom and responsibility. if that's all it takes to kill punk rock, RIP.

[tommydski]

Please post the songs or interviews whereby any member of Fugazi from 1987-Present has made explicit comments that people should not drink or take drugs.

I would have thought that everyone knew that the lyrics to the Minor Threat song 'Straight Edge' were personal to Ian Mackaye. Also, in the lyrics to 'Out of Step', the implied 'I' was added to the lyric sheet at the request of the rest of the group -

(I) Don't smoke
Don't drink
Don't fuck

Also, remember this was written when Mackaye was a lot, lot younger and I'm sure this was highly relevant to his life at that age. People change as they get older. I doubt anyone here would want to be permanently linked to words they wrote when they were a teenager. Especially when it has been misconstrued and blown out of proportion a million times since then.

[big_dave]

I know it's scarcely relevant anymore, but Mackaye's personalisation of hardcore punk during the political era was a brave stab in the dark. To suggest that he's generalising is to heroically miss the point and do him an injustice.

The most patronising thing about Fugazi lyrics is their "whole cloth" philosophy, that we're supposed to adapt their words to our lives. But whatever, in the index of political rock band sins it is very, very minor.

[Ernest]

I never was able to see a live show of either group, though. Despite this, I can't imagine that Fugazi could possibly have been more intense than the Jesus Lizard on stage (at least during TJL's prime years).

Jesus Lizard by a long way.

I didn't get the chance to see either, but going by the records, Fugazi moves me a million times more than TJL. Fugazi's music constantly shifts and had such great dynamics, plus Ian and Guy singing gave the music more of a personality.

Fugazi by a million miles.