Ultimate Thunderdome: Fugazi vs. The Jesus Lizard

[honeyisfunny]

I am 110% with Marsup here.

I never heard Fugazi talk about some ethical stance on not using a certain cab or being 'No FX' or whatever. I remember Guy talking to me about wah wah pedals and studio FX when I was a kid and loved his band.

TJL are fucking immense. Their best moments are incomparable. But I can't shake this idea that (maybe because they were ahead of their time) they're much more in line with the general feeling of people now and maybe Fugazi aren't. So people are saying TJL. But the question is not 'which band do you want to see now?', it's 'which band is best' and like Marsup said, I can think of moments with Fugazi where any veil of 'coolness' or self-conciousness I had when watching them just got pulled down for me and I think that's amazing.

Yes, I am drunk. The irony.

[chet]

Marsup' is speaking only truth here.

Apparently this one person went to one of either Minor Threat's shows, or an early Fugazi show, and ended up getting their neck broken and permanently paralyzed. They wanted to make sure something like that WOULD NEVER happen again, and of course its completely reasonably for a band to conduct itself however it wants at its own show. You don't like what they're saying/doing, then leave. Fugazi will probably even refund your money...

[mr.arrison]

Jesus Lizard, by a fucking mile.

[mattw]

I dunno, this is a pretty easy one for me. As much as I love tJL, they definitely have a few holes in their catalog.

Those Fugazi records hold up remarkably well. As in, there's hardly a bum song on any of them. I don't think I can say that about too many bands, but if it weren't for the two spotty Capitol records, I'd probably say that for the Lizard too.

Maybe if I had seen tJL live, my vote would be swayed. I did pay $5 to see Fugazi's show, which still ranks as one of the best ever. I forget what song they played before, but they went straight into "Arpeggiator" and it was nuts. For 5 bucks, I almost felt like I was ripping them off.

[mr.arrison]

there's hardly a bum song on any of them.

I like Fugazi alright.

But, there are some songs on Red Medicine that make me cringe.

Even the worst Jesus Lizard songs are just background ambience.

That said, listening to Fugazi's "Repeater" in the car after leaving Lollapoopuza 1 in Reston, Va. after Jane's Addiction started playing their dreadful post-Motley Crue Goth-metal was an eye opening experience i'll never forget. Even if I was being preached to, it all made sense.

Still, Jesus Lizard kicks Fugazi's ass.

[mattw]

But, there are some songs on Red Medicine that make me cringe.

Yeah, a few of those--not so great. It sounds like they were just messing around in the studio.

Still, how do you follow In On The Killtaker? I feel like they made up for it with End Hits, and to a lesser extent, The Argument.

As a [potential] last album, that's leagues better than Blue.

[mr.arrison]

End Hits, and to a lesser extent, The Argument.

As a [potential] last album, that's leagues better than Blue.

eh, somewhat true, but Fugazi has no Goat, no Liar and barely a Head/Pure in their output.

Blue, to me just sounds like Jesus Lizard doing RATT covers with some studio trickery. I am not kidding. It's wallpaper.

I hate Jim Kimball's drumming with TJL. With Laughing Hyenas +1. With Mule +2

With TJL, his drumming removes all the swing that made the first few TJL albums so special.

[stewie]

The Jesus Lizard by a mile.

And Fugazi makes it a looong long fucking mile.



But still TJL.

[richterbjack]

Marsup' is speaking only truth here.

Yeah.

When a band makes a point out of playing all-ages shows (and a universally known point, at that), I think it's perfectly reasonable for that band to make sure that it's the kind of environment where a kid's neck isn't going to be snapped. I've been to plenty of powerful shows where the crowd was able to enjoy themselves, even to the point of expressing it physically, without taking it out on other people.

I've also been to a few too many bad metal shows where I spent the whole time fending off some aggressive 300 lb goof, or seeing some 18 year old girl across the room getting hit in the face by some goon who's just "enjoying himself". For that matter, the spitting guy from Instrument was shown elbowing a kid right in the face not long before he ended up on stage with Ian.

Maybe it's not a discussion for here, but I just don't think that those guys' stance qualifies as "fascist".

[holmes]

fugazi border on annoying and vagualy fascist ironically.

For reals. WTF?

I voted for fugazi, but I get where he's coming from (I think). One thing I noticed watching the Instrument dvd was that, for a band founded on a punk rock ethos, they sure do spend a lot of time telling people what they can and cannot do...

you are way off base.

They ask people not to be violent and destructive at their shows because guess who is responsible if someone destroys a bunch oif shit at the venue? Or breaks their neck slam dancing? Who's the kids parents gonna sue?
They would be the target, they had no label or teams of lawyers or what have you to deal with such things. they did it all on their own, every step of teh way.
One real bad incident could have destroyed everything they had built and worked for.
So yeah, I'd ask people not to destroy shit and please don't crowd surf as well if I'm in that position. One show you can't jump on people's heads at, big deal, grow up.

I don't think it's the fear of being sued, I think it's just that they didn't want these unfortunate things to happen while they're playing. no? I mean, they seem like the most caring people ever.

i hate fucking slam dancing man. that had nothing to do with it. why on earth would that be the first thing that popped into your head after reading my post? im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have dont at all.

im with bradley on this one.

[sphincter]

Both amazing bands but Fugazi are the better out of the two.

[honeyisfunny]

fugazi border on annoying and vagualy fascist ironically.

For reals. WTF?

I voted for fugazi, but I get where he's coming from (I think). One thing I noticed watching the Instrument dvd was that, for a band founded on a punk rock ethos, they sure do spend a lot of time telling people what they can and cannot do...

you are way off base.

They ask people not to be violent and destructive at their shows because guess who is responsible if someone destroys a bunch oif shit at the venue? Or breaks their neck slam dancing? Who's the kids parents gonna sue?
They would be the target, they had no label or teams of lawyers or what have you to deal with such things. they did it all on their own, every step of teh way.
One real bad incident could have destroyed everything they had built and worked for.
So yeah, I'd ask people not to destroy shit and please don't crowd surf as well if I'm in that position. One show you can't jump on people's heads at, big deal, grow up.

I don't think it's the fear of being sued, I think it's just that they didn't want these unfortunate things to happen while they're playing. no? I mean, they seem like the most caring people ever.

i hate fucking slam dancing man. that had nothing to do with it. why on earth would that be the first thing that popped into your head after reading my post? im talking about all that DONT drink DONT smoke. its not that they just say they arent into it - that would be fine, in fact id give them major props. they go as far as to almost alienate you from their scene if you do. thats utter bullshit man. this is fucking punk rock - its for all different types of people. fair enough if you dont want drink or smokes at your, gig thats fine fine too. but to alienate people for wanting to buy that shit in their own time, and forcing that way of life on your (not all the time but often) very damaged-impressionable-young-probably-bullied fan base is bullshit. That side i am not debating the many other actually great things they have dont at all.

im with bradley on this one.

Where the fuck did you get that from Fugazi? I'm not doing a name drop but I've been to a bar with Fugazi. They're regular guys, some of whom don't drink. I never get that I can't drink from their music or that I am somehow not allowed to do things. Apart from maybe beating up a gay person in a park but I would say that's something of a given that that's 'bad'.
And if someone wants to police their own show in order to make sure everyone in there has the best time they possibly can without people acting like they're on MTV then more power to them.

[simmo]

Fugazi.

I have to admit that I completely agree with Marsupialised over the last two pages.

I like and admire both bands, but overall Fugazi do it more for me musically, and their wider contribution and influence on the independent music scene has been phenomenal (the question asks us to consider everything so I'm considering that).

[Gramsci]

The Lizard.

Fugazi are great, but...

[steve]

I think Fugazi win all non-performance/non-music battles here. They conducted themselves impeccably and treated everyone they dealt with generously. I totally loved hanging around with them, playing with them and seeing them play. Great, fantastic band. An inspiration, absolutely. Nobody ever delivered the goods in more arenas simultaneously.

That said, the Jesus Lizard conjured up a new kind of rock music, simultaneously uglier, smarter and more perverse than anything before it. They have no peers. As a band they were unique. As people, whatever, they were regular guys. They did some dumb and questionable stuff, played the wrong cards at the end, whatever. Their first five years are the best five years any band has ever had.

As much as bands like the Stooges and the Ramones meant to me as a kid, the Jesus Lizard ultimately mean more. They win.

[SweetDaddyPatty]

I love Fugazi but they may be one of the most boring live bands I have ever seen.

[Marsupialized]

I love Fugazi but they may be one of the most boring live bands I have ever seen.

Insane

[J. Burns]

Fugazi.

Fugazi never released a bum record in their entire discography. The Jesus Lizard released three (the first drum machine record, then the last two.) The fact that Fugazi's run was several years longer makes this even more impressive.

However, if this was strictly a fist fight, you'd be dumb not to put your money on the Lizard.

Also, if you've flipped through the Keep Your Eyes Open book or the Instrument DVD, there are many, many, many, shots with the Marshall and Park badges intact. I'd be willing to bet that they did in fact fall off over many years on the road. I've seen it happen with my own band's equipment.

I'm guessing that when Ian was describing his "just an amplifier and a guitar" philosophy, he was talking strictly about himself. Guy has never been shy about the fact that he uses pedals. Even then, the MXR Distortion and the Vox wah is um, three less pedals than I use, so what the fuck.

"DON'T drink?" "DON'T smoke?" Um. Wrong band, dude. What year is this?

[a. james]

this basically boils down to "goat" vs. "red medicine" for me.



"goat."


duh.

[warmowski]

Mac.

-r