Preferred Microphones for recording guitar...

[Matthias]

Well, let´s first state that i am not at all experienced in recording and microphone positioning... but everytime our band gets recorded i am very curious about the "why´s" and "how´s".
So i am pretty interested in your favorite microphones and techniques for recording guitar in general. Just putting an SM 57 in front of the cabinet cannot be the whole truth, am i right? Still that is what happened to me in ´most recording situations except the last one which was really better. I am looking forward to hear your suggestions and arguments.

Thanks

Matthias

[steve]

Well, let´s first state that i am not at all experienced in recording and microphone positioning... but everytime our band gets recorded i am very curious about the "why´s" and "how´s".
So i am pretty interested in your favorite microphones and techniques for recording guitar in general. Just putting an SM 57 in front of the cabinet cannot be the whole truth, am i right? Still that is what happened to me in ´most recording situations except the last one which was really better. I am looking forward to hear your suggestions and arguments.

Thanks

Matthias

Hey:

This is a big topic. There is a protracted discussion about it on prosoundweb.com in their recpit forums (where there is some good information, a lot of bullshit and occasional enlightenment).

For myself, I tend to mic the cone of the speaker on axis, positioning the mic so that the proximity boost (however much there is) is flattering to the sound. I will often use an ambient microphone as well. If I am using more than one close mic, I will try to ensure that the mics are all the same distance from the speaker to minimise phase difference.

For mic choice, I often find myself using ribbon mics, often in conjunction with a vocal-quality condenser mic. Listen to the sound closely, and use what you know about your mic collection to pick mics which will flatter the sound. This part comes with experience.

Good luck,
-steve albini

[gaetano]

steve,when you're using more than one close mic,do you put the mic in front of the same cone as the first one or do you choose a different cone?
thank you.

[danmaksym]

From what I've seen, Steve puts one mic on each speaker (if there are two). And, obviously, if there is only one speaker in the cabinet he puts both mics on that speaker.

Dan

[Secret_Bob]

Here is what I found gives me the guitar sound that I am happy with, it is a little track intensive but I have found that it is far superior to anything else I have tried:

find the best cone (on some cabs there is almost no difference, then it doesn't matter, but always check by having someone else hold the first mic (see below) in front of every available cone). Put one mic (I use a Beyer M260 or a M500 and they always seem to work, I have used Beyer M201 and Sennheiser MD441 and MD421 with success but you can't beat the Beyer Ribbons (except if your lucky enough to afford some other ribbons, which I am not) pretty much in the centre of the cone. I usually place the mic about 7" from the grill but don't find the distance to be too critical. Now place a second mic with a good low frequency response (my favourite is the Beyer M380 as it is rather dull sounding (see below), but have used RE20s and MD421s) so that the diaphragms have the same distance from the cone (check by flipping the phase on one mic and they should cancel out pretty much all of the signal when the levels are similar). This second mic is as close to the first mic as possible but further from the centre of the cone that the first one, where the guitar sound is duller.
Now you should have two guitar signals: one from the first mic which is really sharp and in your face but a little thin and another one from the more off centre mic which is hopefully meaty but a little dull. Buss these to one track. Have the band play (or roll the tape) and set up a rough mix. If your guitar is sounding thin take down the level of the first mic and/or bring up the second mic. It is like an eq with to parameters: bite and weight, all that is always missing from a single mic that is not in the perfect spot.
Once you have a good sound from these two mics (and this is where the art is really at IMHO: deciding there and then what a good sound is) bring in the stereo room mic you prepared earlier (sorry forgot to mention them before, ah well...). I use Blumlein or spaced omnis depending on what sort of mics I have available. The position of these depends on your room, I usually put them somewhere where they are not in anybody's way and look cool, listen to them and then move them according to what I hear (again it is about knowing what you want from your guitar sound, I usually have them somewhere where I can use them by themselves as an intro guitar or "roomy" middle eight guitar). I track these room mics separately as they can be used to create more dynamic mixes. Obviously the room mics will sound just like your room does (dead and boxy= dead and boxy, open and spacious= ...you get what I am saying) but you can do quite a bit in the mix (or at the tracking stage) with eq and playing around with slight delays (0-30ms, delay the track not used as FX) and sometimes heavy compression with long attack and short release settings can work. If your room is carpeted and dead bring in planks of wood, cases anything that gives the sound the chance to bounce around a little.

If your guitar sound is to harsh still move the close microphone cluster further to the edge of the cone, use the eq on the amp and guitar (tone controls do not have to be set to 10 as many guitarists believe).

Recording (guitars) is all about being aware of your tools (mics, mic position, preamps, EQ (on guitars, amps and desks (of which the last should be used as little as possible, because it is the easiest to do and you want to use that when everything else is set up as best as it can), compression, the reflections from the recording space and the medium you record to) and how these tools influence the sound you are recording. You then need a precise idea of what you want to record and compare it to the sound that is coming from your monitoring system. Adjust the qualities of the sound you hear by implementing the tools at your disposal until your happy. If your never happy then consider if your goals are realistic: my own guitar playing always sounds mid-range-y and washy (or at least that is what it always sounds like to me) and that is because of the way I play so I will never manage to sound Hifi and sharp until I learn how to play the guitar in a sharp way.

To summarize:
3 Tracks : stereo room tracks and mono guitar signal which comes from two close mics (a sharp one and a dull one).


Sorry for going on so long in my first post but I am avoiding the Flash stuff I have to program for university and I have done the washing up and tidied the front room already.

Excellent site with loads of good ideas and info, thanx

Tara
Robert

[darktowel]

does anyone use DI signals ?

[sixteenrev]

doesn't anyone use straight signals from the amp?
or even guitar straight to the board via something?
just curious..
if so, how do i achieve maximum results with minimal damage?
is it not dangerous to just plug my guitar straight into the board?
any other tips.

hmm, I've never been pleased whatsoever with the results of recording this way. Most of the time I only did it because i was in some place where i couldn't make any noise, like a small apartment at 4 am.

I could imagine having a clean guitar buried in the mix where this might sound okay, or possibly some heavy distortion where you want it to sound "bad". other than those specific effects, with the technology currently available- no matter what line6 might say, the convention is to use an amp and mic.

that goes for bass too, though i know some might disagree. try different mics

Ari

[darktowel]

Hmm Line6 is a bad idea, i agree.

[casey_rice]

This is a big topic....<snip>

I will try to ensure that the mics are all the same distance from the speaker to minimise phase difference.

ding! I second that as a good first step in experimenting with multiple microphones on electric guitar amps for sure.

[Mayfair]

Please also remember to listen. Listen a lot. Find something you like. Make it sound good to your ears. There is no recipe for that. It may take recording an amp through a snare drum. It may mean pulling out some tubes, shoving it in a closet and letting your amp struggle and suffer a little. I may mean popping a few holes in your speaker cone (is that story about Dave Davies really true?!). As much good advice as get from these forums, I alway try and remember that these are all solutions someone found by trying out things and listening to them. As a music listener, I need my ears to be pulled to other places. I crave recordings to create their own space on their own terms. I know the effect of radio play has flattened out the range of many recordings so as to follow nicely after the previous song, etc, etc. Also, you can see how people are affected by hearing the squashed, compresses signal of FM radio and how that affects the sounds they go for when recording there own music. Luckily we do not have to listen to the radio. All I mean is, where it is good to get advice from other people to see how they do things so you do not have to reinvent the wheel everyday, it is also good to reinvent the wheel every so often.

[AnalogElectric]

For me it depends on the guitar player, what style the music is, and his/her set-up. I'll generally start with a Sennheiser e609 (or an ATM23HE, ATM63HE, or a SM7), a 414 near the cone, and an RCA BK-5B and an RCA 44BX at a distance. I'll usually put all sources to tape and use the sources to liking during the mix.

The e609's pickup pattern is very small and doesn't allow ambient room to leak in which is why I like it for detail and crunch. Sometimes it stands on its own as the only mic I'll use during a mix. It's similar to a SM58 but a little less dumpy. It has a very direct dynamic sound you'd expect from the mic.

The 414 gets snap from the high end while filling out the frequencies the e609 doesn't produce. It’s usually a good mic for switching between clean and dirty tones during a live recording session. Sometimes I'll run it through a gate and duck it slightly for a compressed saturated feel so it seems to be in an overwhelming sound vacuum.

The RCA BK-5B is the glory of all glories. The mixture of high and mid crunch is gorgeous. Either used slightly in a mix or cranked up in the mix it fills in the tones I wouldn't think would be useful. The best way I can describe it is the mic makes my tonsils jiggle and my wisdom teeth rattle.

The 44BX is deep, dark, and spacious. I use it on bass quite a bit cuz I don't need a lot of volume to get some nice and smooth lows. It's somewhat temperamental with loud screeching guitar but placed properly and usually off axis it wields some amazing results. The further I move it away from a source sometimes it bottoms out the lows in an unpleasant way but when it works I get a well rounded tone in conjunction with the other mics.

Other mics like the ATM23HE, ATM63HE, RE20, or an SM7 are alternates I'll use per taste. Each is a bit different in their own right but that all depends on the relationship between the other mics.

I've pretty much poo-poo'd the SM57 after understanding the subtle differences in frequency response from different mics. The 57’s, to me, is dumpy. I like to have a little bite from the guitars and unless I'm EQ'ing the 57, I don't like the initial raw tone it produces. I've been somewhat satisfied with a 57 and an RCA74b Jr together but it seems to lack definition and rounded lows.

There are so many different variables and I'm constantly changing my set-up based on my mood that day. I don't think there's a wrong way but as long as I can keep myself surprised by experimenting (even by tweaking the amp tone slightly) I feel that's a progressive way of approaching it.

Having an extra right hand man/woman to move a mics while I'm monitoring and the guitar player is playing helps a lot in finding a sweet spot no matter what mic is there. I suppose if I had house gear that everyone used and the gear was set-up exactly the same every time sessions would be a breeze but yet again everything coming out of the studio would sound the same and what kinda fun is that? I've had remote sessions where I've worked with both the most expensive mics and the least expensive mics to my disposal and both situations present unique problems and challenges. What might work for one set-up might not work for another. Take lots of notes on what works/not works for future reference and how and why it works/not works. One person’s junk is another person’s treasure. I always tell a band that I like to take a little extra care in finding the right set-up for their sound. It takes a little pressure of me when my own psychology thinks a band comes in expecting me to hear two seconds of tone, pick a mic, throw it up, and it's perfect.

Something exciting but also scary is when a guitar player and/or bass player comes in and says, "I'm not happy with my tone, could you mess with it a bit?"

I have an idea in my head how I like to hear a recording but how am I to know what they're thinking regarding overall tone? I don't like to mess too much with their sound but if I have full reign over the project I could tweak for days then find out they hate the results? I might be heading off the subject but ultimately I guess I'm trying to convey the fact that I try to overcompensate with mic sources so I have something to work with in the mix (especially if it's a rush session). I go with my instincts and lessons I learn from previous sessions and go from there. If I please myself and the guitar/bass player then I know it's going in the right direction, obviously. If I frustrate over a tone I'll use multiple sources and find during the progression of a session that I did cover the range I need for a good tone.

--Adam Lazlo

[sneakingabout]

for a recent recording i did with my band, i found a guitar sound that i was really happy with by putting the combo (a 70's Ampeg VT-22/ 2 12") and the cab (additional 2 12", slightly bassier) next to each other in an 'L' shape. placed an SM57 off-axis in front of each of them, and then an audio-technica vocal condenser (forget which model, ended in 33?) equidistant between them at about the height of the speakers. seemed to get a really good balance between the bassier cab and the more treble-heavy combo, and produced a more 'open' (that's the only word i can think of to describe it) guitar sound that fit the song.

-ryan.
www.theroyalbangs.com